Post by Chrono on Mar 8, 2010 10:12:45 GMT -6
So, I was looking at articles on Wikipedia, and I stumbled upon this page.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie's_World
After reading its description, I really want to read it...
Anyway, I saw a related link was this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality
Wikipedia can probably define it better than I can...
My guess is the first thing people think of when they hear this now-a-days is the movie The Matrix. But still, it is an interesting concept. This is one part of the article that was particularity intriguing to me.
Although, even if we were living in a "simulated reality," what would it really mean to us. After all, what is reality? Would it matter? And if we were to expand on this simulated reality theory further, would it not be possible that within a simulated reality, a simulated reality is created? Could then the pattern not repeat itself forever.
If we were to believe that knowing whether or not we are in a simulated reality is important so we can "escape" it, even if we were to break free, could we ever know if we are in the "actual" reality or not? Just going off my thoughts above, it could be possible that within the possible innumerable number of simulated realities, there are an infinite number of simulated simulated realities. Did those in the Matrix ever actually escape the "matrix," or were they simply trapped in another matrix, and another, and then another...
I suppose my own thoughts reflect the questions found on the Wikipedia page.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie's_World
After reading its description, I really want to read it...
Anyway, I saw a related link was this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality
Wikipedia can probably define it better than I can...
Simulated reality is the proposition that reality could be simulated—perhaps by computer simulation—to a degree indistinguishable from "true" reality. It could contain conscious minds which may or may not be fully aware that they are living inside a simulation. In its strongest form, the "simulation hypothesis" claims it is entirely possible and even probable that we are living in a simulated reality.
My guess is the first thing people think of when they hear this now-a-days is the movie The Matrix. But still, it is an interesting concept. This is one part of the article that was particularity intriguing to me.
Arguments
Nick Bostrom
Main article: Simulation argument
Ten years after Hans Moravec first published the simulation argument (and three years after its update in Moravec's second full pop science book),[1] the philosopher Nick Bostrom investigated the possibility that we may be living in a simulation.[2] A simplified version of his argument proceeds as such:
i. It is possible that an advanced civilization could create a computer simulation which contains individuals with artificial intelligence (AI).
ii. Such a civilization would likely run many, billions for example, of these simulations (just for fun, for research or any other permutation of possible reasons.)
iii. A simulated individual inside the simulation wouldn’t necessarily know that it is inside a simulation — it is just going about its daily business in what it considers to be the "real world."
Then the ultimate question is — if one accepts that the above premises are at least possible— which of the following is more likely?
a. We are the one civilization which develops AI simulations and happens not to be in one itself?
b. We are one of the many (billions) of simulations that has run? (Remember point iii.)
In greater detail, his argument attempts to prove the trichotomy, either that:
1. intelligent races will never reach a level of technology where they can run simulations of reality so detailed they can be mistaken for reality (assuming that this is possible in principle); or
2. races who do reach such a sophisticated level do not tend to run such simulations; or
3. we are almost certainly living in such a simulation.
Bostrom's argument uses the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to simulate entire inhabited planets or even larger habitats or even entire universes as quantum simulations in time/space pockets, including all the people on them, on a computer, and that simulated people can be fully conscious, and are as fully sentient individuals as non-simulated people.
A particular case provided in the original paper poses the scenario where we reason based on the trichotomy listed aboved. We deny the first hypothesis: We assume that the human race could reach such a technologically advanced level without destroying themselves in the process. We then deny the second hypothesis: We presume that once we reached such a level we would still be interested in history, the past, and our ancestors, and that there would be no legal or moral strictures on running such simulations.
If these two assumptions are made, then
Assumptions as to whether the human race (or another intelligent species) could reach such a technological level without destroying themselves depend greatly on the value of the Drake equation, which attempts to calculate the number of intelligent technological species communicating via radio in a galaxy at any given point in time. The expanded equation looks to the number of posthuman civilizations that ever would exist in any given universe. If the average for all universes, real or simulated, is greater than or equal to one such civilization existing in each universe's entire history, then the odds are rather overwhelmingly in favor of the proposition that the average civilization is in a simulation, assuming that such simulated universes are possible and such civilizations would want to run such simulations.
Nick Bostrom
Main article: Simulation argument
Ten years after Hans Moravec first published the simulation argument (and three years after its update in Moravec's second full pop science book),[1] the philosopher Nick Bostrom investigated the possibility that we may be living in a simulation.[2] A simplified version of his argument proceeds as such:
i. It is possible that an advanced civilization could create a computer simulation which contains individuals with artificial intelligence (AI).
ii. Such a civilization would likely run many, billions for example, of these simulations (just for fun, for research or any other permutation of possible reasons.)
iii. A simulated individual inside the simulation wouldn’t necessarily know that it is inside a simulation — it is just going about its daily business in what it considers to be the "real world."
Then the ultimate question is — if one accepts that the above premises are at least possible— which of the following is more likely?
a. We are the one civilization which develops AI simulations and happens not to be in one itself?
b. We are one of the many (billions) of simulations that has run? (Remember point iii.)
In greater detail, his argument attempts to prove the trichotomy, either that:
1. intelligent races will never reach a level of technology where they can run simulations of reality so detailed they can be mistaken for reality (assuming that this is possible in principle); or
2. races who do reach such a sophisticated level do not tend to run such simulations; or
3. we are almost certainly living in such a simulation.
Bostrom's argument uses the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to simulate entire inhabited planets or even larger habitats or even entire universes as quantum simulations in time/space pockets, including all the people on them, on a computer, and that simulated people can be fully conscious, and are as fully sentient individuals as non-simulated people.
A particular case provided in the original paper poses the scenario where we reason based on the trichotomy listed aboved. We deny the first hypothesis: We assume that the human race could reach such a technologically advanced level without destroying themselves in the process. We then deny the second hypothesis: We presume that once we reached such a level we would still be interested in history, the past, and our ancestors, and that there would be no legal or moral strictures on running such simulations.
If these two assumptions are made, then
- it is likely that we would run a very large number of so-called ancestor simulations to study our past;
- and that, by the same line of reasoning, many of these simulations would in turn run other sub-simulations, and so on;
- and that given the fact that right now it is impossible to tell whether we are living in one of the vast number of simulations or the original ancestor universe, the likelihood is that the former is true.
Assumptions as to whether the human race (or another intelligent species) could reach such a technological level without destroying themselves depend greatly on the value of the Drake equation, which attempts to calculate the number of intelligent technological species communicating via radio in a galaxy at any given point in time. The expanded equation looks to the number of posthuman civilizations that ever would exist in any given universe. If the average for all universes, real or simulated, is greater than or equal to one such civilization existing in each universe's entire history, then the odds are rather overwhelmingly in favor of the proposition that the average civilization is in a simulation, assuming that such simulated universes are possible and such civilizations would want to run such simulations.
Although, even if we were living in a "simulated reality," what would it really mean to us. After all, what is reality? Would it matter? And if we were to expand on this simulated reality theory further, would it not be possible that within a simulated reality, a simulated reality is created? Could then the pattern not repeat itself forever.
If we were to believe that knowing whether or not we are in a simulated reality is important so we can "escape" it, even if we were to break free, could we ever know if we are in the "actual" reality or not? Just going off my thoughts above, it could be possible that within the possible innumerable number of simulated realities, there are an infinite number of simulated simulated realities. Did those in the Matrix ever actually escape the "matrix," or were they simply trapped in another matrix, and another, and then another...
I suppose my own thoughts reflect the questions found on the Wikipedia page.
Is it possible, even in principle, to tell whether we are in a simulated reality?
Is there any difference between a simulated reality and a "real" one?
How should we behave if we knew that we were living in a simulated reality?
Is there any difference between a simulated reality and a "real" one?
How should we behave if we knew that we were living in a simulated reality?